AnonymousMarch 21, 2009 03:35 EST

There is no real science in psychoanalysis.

Dave SmidleyOctober 14, 2010 18:23 EST

Anonymous makes a great point

PsychotherapistOctober 21, 2010 10:20 EST

Practitioners who are educated - extensively- in psychoanalytically informed practice understand the enormous value of this work, as do their patients.
It is for the curious and intellectually minded, not for the masses.

ZaraNovember 19, 2010 10:46 EST

@Psychotherapist: it could also be said that it is for bourgeois people with too much money and too much time on their hands, lacking the courage to find out what they want from life and actually doing something about it instead of the endless whining and Hineininterpretiering (completely unproveable and thus unscientific as mentioned by an earlier commentator) that constitutes psychoanalysis. Freud was a very disturbed individual with a cocaine addiction problem who projected his own problems unto his patients (not to mention western culture as a whole, the nerve) and who sought out, as any good conman would, the weak and suscitible to work his magic and 'prove' his introspectively conceived theories (clearly springing from his own pathology and jewish upbringing), the basis of which he basically stole from Plato, Greek mythology and Schopenhauer. Psychoanalysis is little more than a secular version of christianity, conjuring up ghosts and attractive sounding ideas ('the unconscious', the oedipus/electra-complex'...) that have no basis in reality whatsoever (while still presenting them as 'scientific' and 'medically sound') and basically serve as crutches for those who are unable to deal with the fact that the world has no real meaning and is in essence amoral, which is reflected in the fact that bad things happen to good people and vice versa. People with real problems (the 'masses' you're referring to) don't have the time nor the money to spend years in therapy and if you are experiencing mental problems you're better off taking psychotropic medication which at least has some basis in science. Depression and anxiety related problems occur mainly in the west and are predominatly the result of stress, greed, insecurity, social isolation and a lack of common beliefsystems and strict moral guidelines, when you have to work your ass off just to survive you don't have the time to wonder about life's supposed meaning, fantasize about an ideal life and reminisce on the supposed errors your parents made while raising you. This is a great way to become very unhappy and fall prey to intellectual conmen who'll cater to your 'problem' ('pick a label, we have plenty'), telling you what you want to hear while offering no real solution except the common wisdom that only you yourself can change your life and the truism that you are ultimately responsible for your own fate and happiness. All the rest is hogwash and cheap excuses for the weak and the cowardly.

As to your comment: I'm very 'intellectually minded' as you called it, yet I don't need some high paid doctor or psychologist to tell me what to do or how to live my life... If I need inspiration I turn to philosophy (a discipline that actually requires you to think for yourself, sort of the complete opposite of psychoanalysis whereby everything is suggested by the therapist, directly or indirectly, not that much different from a priest delivering a sermon, hearing confession and giving the absolution), I meditate and/or I talk to my friends who are always open and frank with me, who know me better than any stranger with a university degree, who actually care about me (how can you possible care about the dozens or more patients you'd see every year?) and who don't charge an arm and a leg for advice.

ZaraNovember 19, 2010 10:46 EST

"This is it—the moment of psychoanalytic insight, when the apparently random fragments of unconscious experience coalesce into consciousness with such illuminating force, it’s as if a meteor has just come careering out of nowhere into the earth’s atmosphere. Tony is shaken."

This is truly splendid: you make something up and then you're marvelled by the result as if it was some divine revelation... Julius Caesar wrote: 'people believe what they want to believe', ergo not necessarily what is true (more likely the opposite). Interpretating dreams and experiences is no different than seeing patterns in the sky or thinking complex objects or living entities must be made by an intelligent creator... It's hogwash: we see what we want to see, what is agreeable to us as seekers of meaning and knowledge necessary for survival in this basically hostile world. This has little if anything to do with reality or science (rigoursly recorded and interpretated data about that reality, with theories supported by numerous attempts at falsification)... It's clear psychoanalysis is nothing more than a belief-system with an intricate mythology whereby one can make sense of the world: I have nothing against people spending money on this folly (freedom of speech, freedom of religion, freedom of stupidity), as long as folks aren't deceived (which they are: most people know squat about science and can't think for themselves, hence they fall prey to this kind of intellectually sounding gibberish) and it's not funded, partially or wholely, by the goverment and hence the taxpayers' money. With half of what is spent on so called 'mental healthcare' in the US alone the problem of hunger in the world could probably be solved and that money would actually effect a real chance in the world and in people's lives instead of the highly doubtful efficacity of psychological therapy, especially in the long run.

ZaraJanuary 26, 2011 15:44 EST

To paraphrase psychotherapist: 'those who have been in a cult for years and have received proper instruction by the savior, will see the enormous value of the teachings... so will the gullible who empty their checkings account and devote themselves entirely to the cult leader'. Appeal to authority and faux elitism, along with the old religious justification 'because I believe it, it must be true/valuable/trustworthy...' (my own subjective experience says it must be true so it is true, I want it to be true so it must be true) proves nothing. Too bad psychotherapy and especially psychoanalysis has so little to do with actual science or even rationality... It's brainwashing essentially and providing a substitute parent/guardian for those who aren't mentally grown up and refuse to take responsibity for their own actions, socio-economic situation and emotional well-being ('it's not my own fault, it's my daddy who didn't love me enough'). It's decadence, escapism and justification of the status-quo, nothing more. I can't believe this nonsense is actually taught at universities and other centres of higher learning around the world and actually enjoys prestige much like theology in the old days while being equally empty, aburd and inherently meaningless except for the 'true believer' and the scientifically uneducated: vanitas vanitatum.

KenjiMay 29, 2011 21:46 EST

It\'s always nice that everyone seems to know everything about anything. Anonymity seems to exclude humbleness.

@Zara: The Caesar quote could apply to you as well? Why aren\'t you the cultist?

AlexDecember 04, 2011 21:29 EST

Kenji -

Yeah. Not a lot of humility going on here.

I've been in psychoanalysis for 8 months. I'm not rich - I'm in debt. I'm a young student who had enough of recurring bouts of depression and decided to do something substantial about it. The impact in my life has been startling. A lot has changed. There's no simplistic causal relationship between my experiences in therapy and the impact in my life, but I know I've learned a lot about myself. It's not just about depression. It's about living a better life, digging out old patterns, and choosing new ways. It's also about learning to live life through actually living, not just thinking. We're such rational beings, always thinking we have the answer. I'm training as a lawyer, so my experience in therapy has been a really good complement.

On a concrete level, therapy has impacted my life in the following way: I spend more time considering my dreams (both the ones at night, and the conscious ones I'd like to fulfil), dancing and making art. I spend less time worrying about who I am and what I'm all about. I am more considerate of my impact on others and less impulsive. My relationships with friends, women and my family have both deepened and become more fun over the past 8 months.

My therapist is no guru, Christ figure or whatever. He's just some dude who happens to be pretty good at what he does. He's no magician and he doesn't really offer me much advice.

I don't think psychoanalysis is "necessary" or whatever. I would be embarrassed to be so prescriptive about how others live their lives. Psychoanalysis is a pretty weird process, and especially strange in the Western world. It's also very pricey - if you're going to go down the psychoanalysis path, it's typically going to be a long one. It's not behavioural therapy; it's more focused on insight. Definitely not appropriate for everyone's situation. It's eccentric - which appeals to me.

If people want to rant about mental health - pick on the drug companies. Those are the folks who are truly copping that they're the Almighty in a bottle.