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	<title>Comments on: Roland Barthes vs. Mixed Martial Arts</title>
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	<link>http://www.walrusmagazine.com/blogs/2008/04/07/barthes-vs-mixed-martial-arts/</link>
	<description>Fearless. Thoughtful. Witty. Canadian. And Opinionated.</description>
	<pubDate>Thu, 16 Oct 2008 06:45:50 +0000</pubDate>
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		<title>By: mma</title>
		<link>http://www.walrusmagazine.com/blogs/2008/04/07/barthes-vs-mixed-martial-arts/#comment-6273</link>
		<dc:creator>mma</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 20 Jul 2008 22:21:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.walrusmagazine.com/blogs/?p=518#comment-6273</guid>
		<description>I find this blog very interesting, i will be here everyday till now. Greetings</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I find this blog very interesting, i will be here everyday till now. Greetings</p>
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		<title>By: The Walrus Blogs » All the Nerdy Middle-Aged Genre-Loving Men » The Shelf</title>
		<link>http://www.walrusmagazine.com/blogs/2008/04/07/barthes-vs-mixed-martial-arts/#comment-4406</link>
		<dc:creator>The Walrus Blogs » All the Nerdy Middle-Aged Genre-Loving Men » The Shelf</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 02 May 2008 16:17:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.walrusmagazine.com/blogs/?p=518#comment-4406</guid>
		<description>[...] its elaborate construction renders it similarly meaningless. To continue the Walrus Blogs’ lit-crit onslaught, I’d suggest that in Tree of Smoke the classic Saussurian sign system breaks down. In the world [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] its elaborate construction renders it similarly meaningless. To continue the Walrus Blogs’ lit-crit onslaught, I’d suggest that in Tree of Smoke the classic Saussurian sign system breaks down. In the world [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Edward Keenan</title>
		<link>http://www.walrusmagazine.com/blogs/2008/04/07/barthes-vs-mixed-martial-arts/#comment-4308</link>
		<dc:creator>Edward Keenan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 26 Apr 2008 05:13:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.walrusmagazine.com/blogs/?p=518#comment-4308</guid>
		<description>Sorry Grant, I have never heard of any of those people. And even my mother knows who Ali and Tyson are. This is one of those points where there's really no arguing -- you can't convince me those are household names if no one in my household recognizes the names.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Sorry Grant, I have never heard of any of those people. And even my mother knows who Ali and Tyson are. This is one of those points where there&#8217;s really no arguing &#8212; you can&#8217;t convince me those are household names if no one in my household recognizes the names.</p>
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		<title>By: Grant Koivula</title>
		<link>http://www.walrusmagazine.com/blogs/2008/04/07/barthes-vs-mixed-martial-arts/#comment-4304</link>
		<dc:creator>Grant Koivula</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 25 Apr 2008 21:50:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.walrusmagazine.com/blogs/?p=518#comment-4304</guid>
		<description>It's already produced an Ali, Lamotta, Tyson house hold name. It's actually produced at least 3. 

Ken Shamrock
Tito Ortiz
Chuck Liddell</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It&#8217;s already produced an Ali, Lamotta, Tyson house hold name. It&#8217;s actually produced at least 3. </p>
<p>Ken Shamrock<br />
Tito Ortiz<br />
Chuck Liddell</p>
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		<title>By: Jeremy Keehn</title>
		<link>http://www.walrusmagazine.com/blogs/2008/04/07/barthes-vs-mixed-martial-arts/#comment-4125</link>
		<dc:creator>Jeremy Keehn</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 16 Apr 2008 17:59:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.walrusmagazine.com/blogs/?p=518#comment-4125</guid>
		<description>Damn, someone read to the end. No, really, interesting points and ones that are forcing me to sharpen my thinking.

I think that those of us who know the sport can appreciate it just for the rise and fall of the action. We get what makes Georges St. Pierre's fights dramatic, etc., because we're already inside the tent. But MMA has a few things that make it hard for the average person to grasp, that might limit its reach, some of which I was looking at above.

One of the things Jan and I were really interested in with the feature is to see whether we could write a piece that appealed to those who know the sport and also got the attention of those who don't (hence the decision to lead with the juxtaposition of science and brutality). When I raise these questions with respect to the sport as a whole, it comes out of questions we were asking of ourselves.

I agree with you that few sports have the kinds of figures who reach beyond hardcore fans. But boxing has had more than its share. And maybe you're right, maybe it's unreasonable to ask that  mixed martial arts produce an Ali at this stage of its development, but I don't think it's unreasonable to ask whether it could. Boxing has left a void; what I was interested here is whether or not MMA has the potential to fill it. The fact that that question can be seriously asked is a testament to its success thus far.

Had Jan and I had another month before deadline, we probably would have balanced out the end by noting some of the positive signs for MMA's future that have recently emerged: the mushrooming of clubs and teams, the cracks showing in UFC's monopoly on top-level fighting (see this &lt;a href="http://www.thestar.com/columnists/article/414943" target=_blank rel="nofollow"&gt;&lt;em&gt;Toronto Star&lt;/em&gt; article&lt;/a&gt; from today).

MMA, like boxing, has an elemental allure that goes beyond these signs, though: two people beating on each other to gain dominance. That's a serious built-in advantage when it comes the sort of documenting and mythologizing that can bring a sport outside its circle of fans. Beyond the fighting, that's one of things that interests me about MMA as a phenomenon: the question of whether it might  become the sort of symbol for racial, social, and economic issues that boxing was. (It's not going to overshadow hockey in terms of mass appeal or symbol of national identity in Canada, of course, but those are different arenas.)

With boxing, the specific allure of fight sports made for some great writing, some great films, and it made Ali, LaMotta, and Tyson household names. When you can have that sort of impact, you might outlast the next contender with a cool reality show. Maybe, as boxing's demise demonstrates, that's just not possible anymore, but I doubt it. I think MMA has potential to be that lasting and have that kind of impact, and eventually to produce an Ali or two. It is highly technical in a way that provides grist for discussion among fans, it is drawing the best fighters and training them at the highest levels of combat sport, and it is truly "ultimate" in that it encompasses and absorbs other disciplines. All good signs.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Damn, someone read to the end. No, really, interesting points and ones that are forcing me to sharpen my thinking.</p>
<p>I think that those of us who know the sport can appreciate it just for the rise and fall of the action. We get what makes Georges St. Pierre&#8217;s fights dramatic, etc., because we&#8217;re already inside the tent. But MMA has a few things that make it hard for the average person to grasp, that might limit its reach, some of which I was looking at above.</p>
<p>One of the things Jan and I were really interested in with the feature is to see whether we could write a piece that appealed to those who know the sport and also got the attention of those who don&#8217;t (hence the decision to lead with the juxtaposition of science and brutality). When I raise these questions with respect to the sport as a whole, it comes out of questions we were asking of ourselves.</p>
<p>I agree with you that few sports have the kinds of figures who reach beyond hardcore fans. But boxing has had more than its share. And maybe you&#8217;re right, maybe it&#8217;s unreasonable to ask that  mixed martial arts produce an Ali at this stage of its development, but I don&#8217;t think it&#8217;s unreasonable to ask whether it could. Boxing has left a void; what I was interested here is whether or not MMA has the potential to fill it. The fact that that question can be seriously asked is a testament to its success thus far.</p>
<p>Had Jan and I had another month before deadline, we probably would have balanced out the end by noting some of the positive signs for MMA&#8217;s future that have recently emerged: the mushrooming of clubs and teams, the cracks showing in UFC&#8217;s monopoly on top-level fighting (see this <a href="http://www.thestar.com/columnists/article/414943" target=_blank rel="nofollow"><em>Toronto Star</em> article</a> from today).</p>
<p>MMA, like boxing, has an elemental allure that goes beyond these signs, though: two people beating on each other to gain dominance. That&#8217;s a serious built-in advantage when it comes the sort of documenting and mythologizing that can bring a sport outside its circle of fans. Beyond the fighting, that&#8217;s one of things that interests me about MMA as a phenomenon: the question of whether it might  become the sort of symbol for racial, social, and economic issues that boxing was. (It&#8217;s not going to overshadow hockey in terms of mass appeal or symbol of national identity in Canada, of course, but those are different arenas.)</p>
<p>With boxing, the specific allure of fight sports made for some great writing, some great films, and it made Ali, LaMotta, and Tyson household names. When you can have that sort of impact, you might outlast the next contender with a cool reality show. Maybe, as boxing&#8217;s demise demonstrates, that&#8217;s just not possible anymore, but I doubt it. I think MMA has potential to be that lasting and have that kind of impact, and eventually to produce an Ali or two. It is highly technical in a way that provides grist for discussion among fans, it is drawing the best fighters and training them at the highest levels of combat sport, and it is truly &#8220;ultimate&#8221; in that it encompasses and absorbs other disciplines. All good signs.</p>
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		<title>By: Mark Wells</title>
		<link>http://www.walrusmagazine.com/blogs/2008/04/07/barthes-vs-mixed-martial-arts/#comment-4124</link>
		<dc:creator>Mark Wells</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 16 Apr 2008 06:26:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.walrusmagazine.com/blogs/?p=518#comment-4124</guid>
		<description>Interesting take on MMA. But I have to say that you're putting it to an unreasonable, and vague, test. MMA doesn't have to win over the skeptics. It has become a sanctioned and legal sport across Canada and the United States, and, as you point out in your story, recently managed to surpass boxing and WWE  in pay per view sales. The hurdles that remain are minor: a sniffly city council in Vancouver and an athletics commissioner in Ontario that proclaims some legal expertise.

MMA will never gain the mass appeal of hockey. But hockey will never gain the mass appeal of football (North American or European). And most people will continue to not care that Canada is a curling powerhouse. Some still believe that figure skating is only for men who are missing a chromosome or didn't have strong male role models during their childhood. All sports have niche audiences. 

I confess to holding a Bachelor of Arts degree, not caring much for hockey, and maintaining an unhealthy schedule of MMA event-watching. I watch MMA for the fight. I watch because there are Canadian contenders in the sport's biggest promotion. I watch to see who will win and who will lose, and how it will happen. The top fighters write their scripts inside the cage with leather, flesh, and bones. 
 
Few sitcoms or talk-shows, let alone sports, have personalities that are both "powerful and real." Hell, even real life is scant on such characters. It is odd that we should expect this of mixed martial artists.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Interesting take on MMA. But I have to say that you&#8217;re putting it to an unreasonable, and vague, test. MMA doesn&#8217;t have to win over the skeptics. It has become a sanctioned and legal sport across Canada and the United States, and, as you point out in your story, recently managed to surpass boxing and WWE  in pay per view sales. The hurdles that remain are minor: a sniffly city council in Vancouver and an athletics commissioner in Ontario that proclaims some legal expertise.</p>
<p>MMA will never gain the mass appeal of hockey. But hockey will never gain the mass appeal of football (North American or European). And most people will continue to not care that Canada is a curling powerhouse. Some still believe that figure skating is only for men who are missing a chromosome or didn&#8217;t have strong male role models during their childhood. All sports have niche audiences. </p>
<p>I confess to holding a Bachelor of Arts degree, not caring much for hockey, and maintaining an unhealthy schedule of MMA event-watching. I watch MMA for the fight. I watch because there are Canadian contenders in the sport&#8217;s biggest promotion. I watch to see who will win and who will lose, and how it will happen. The top fighters write their scripts inside the cage with leather, flesh, and bones. </p>
<p>Few sitcoms or talk-shows, let alone sports, have personalities that are both &#8220;powerful and real.&#8221; Hell, even real life is scant on such characters. It is odd that we should expect this of mixed martial artists.</p>
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